Timeline for Why was my dissenting viewpoint in a post about diversity censored?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
31 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Aug 24, 2020 at 23:26 | comment | added | user21349 | Comments on SE are ephemeral. Complaints about deleted comments are a waste of time. | |
| Aug 21, 2020 at 21:32 | comment | added | Robert Furber | @darijgrinberg "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegut. | |
| Aug 19, 2020 at 15:28 | history | edited | Rodrigo de Azevedo | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 9 characters in body
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| Aug 18, 2020 at 17:30 | comment | added | darij grinberg | @S.Carnahan: The question here is not how welcoming we should be to a certain person, but how interested we should be in a certain question. Patriot's question was obviously of interest to the meta community, seeing that it got 13 upvotes. I, too, think it is a valid question, which does not magically change just because it was asked with trollish intent. (Besides, it also mentioned RP_'s comments being deleted; RP_, unlike Patriot, is a long-time contributor with 66 answers.) | |
| Aug 18, 2020 at 7:21 | comment | added | S. Carnahan Mod | @darijgrinberg My bold guess is that people who find the flag offensive don't see the distinction you draw between (1) trolls who use the flag publicly, and (2) true believers who use the flag publicly, as a particularly useful or interesting one. I would suppose that from their perspective, anyone who plants the flag in a public forum goes into the same mental box and it would be a waste of time to do otherwise. Incidentally, do you think MathOverflow should be more welcoming to trolls than to the people they pretend to be? | |
| Aug 16, 2020 at 16:20 | comment | added | darij grinberg | @NoahSnyder: "Patriot is an apologist for slavery and treason" or, as Occam's Razor would suggest, someone who trolls people with a Confederate Flag avatar. Not something I'd do myself, but something I have seen people do and I can well sympathize with. Your summary is alarmist BS, and you knew this, which is why you gave no details and didn't link to the meta thread. | |
| Aug 15, 2020 at 21:07 | comment | added | Noah Snyder | @TimCampion: You're right, next time I'll link (and also not mention treason, since that seems to have caused a lot of irrelevant distraction). | |
| Aug 15, 2020 at 20:23 | comment | added | Tim Campion | @NoahSnyder Initially, this comment came across to me as (i) a harsh accusation, which was (ii) lacking in substantiating evidence. Finally, Theo provided some context. I think the discussion here would have greatly benefited if you included a link like Theo's from the beginning so that we all knew what you were talking about. In that spirit, is there any further specific context we should be aware of when forming our own opinions vis a vis user "Patriot"? | |
| Aug 14, 2020 at 15:49 | comment | added | Alec Rhea | @GerhardPaseman Hi Gerhard, I hope all has been well since the MO celebration last year. I agree with your sentiment that these discussions are 'ugly' and non mathematical, but these topics are inherently ugly and open discourse around them is necessary to collectively perceive them and decide if we should take action. Encouraging everyone to stay quiet on the matter (even in pursuit of peace) indirectly supports the status quo since it has inertia on its side, and the status quo is unacceptable to many people including myself. I also hope for civility, but rudeness is preferential to silence. | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 19:42 | answer | added | S. CarnahanMod | timeline score: 9 | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 17:40 | comment | added | S. Carnahan Mod | @crispr I suspect one reason Noah chose to mention "treason" was to point out the contrast with the username "Patriot". They are very nearly contradictory, independent of your moral stance regarding treason. | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 12:21 | comment | added | user158636 | To clarify I am not defending the confederates. I denounce their actions because I think that refusing to outlaw slavery and taking military action to prevent it from getting outlawed is immoral. I do not however think that treason is immoral per se. | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 12:03 | comment | added | user158636 | @AsafKaragila but the treason referred to by Noah Snyder did not happen in the modern times I think. Also, laws are written by the state too, aren't they? Were the founders of the United States traitors? | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 11:59 | comment | added | Asaf Karagila Mod | @crispr: Disobeying an order is not treason; disobeying a clearly illegal order is a requirement of every soldier in any modern army, at the very least in the western countries (whether or not this is enforced is a different story). The "superior orders" was shown to not work as a legal defense at the Nuremberg trails. | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 8:19 | comment | added | Emily | Some context: meta.mathoverflow.net/questions/3981/… | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 1:31 | comment | added | user44191 | @GerhardPaseman Speaking generally, I share your viewpoint; I strongly agree with you that disregarding rules in order to extraordinarily punish someone is a way of making those rules irrelevant even when they would help, and often is counterproductive. That said, from the outside, your "peace" honestly looks like you saying "please shut up" to me, in large part because it came before you and Noah Snyder had a disagreement that would clearly benefit from both of you "peacing out". I'm sure there's more context I'm missing - e.g. those "other posts" - but that is how it appeared to me. | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 0:26 | comment | added | Gerhard Paseman | @Sayan, I respond with great reluctance: I want to share a forum with mathematicians and people who discuss mathematics, not politics and not the politics of exclusion. Unfortunately, MathOverflow is rife with the politics of exclusion, and I am sad that it did not develop into the idea of inclusion that I once had for it. Your remark is inciteful, not insightful, and I wish you would remove it. | |
| Aug 13, 2020 at 0:05 | comment | added | Timothy Chow | @R.vanDobbendeBruyn : This post says that the number of flags needed to trigger deletion is 3 + score/3, rounded up, unless the comment contains certain keywords that lower the threshold. To delete a comment with a score of 60+ in this manner would seem to require a coordinated effort. | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 20:53 | comment | added | R. van Dobben de Bruyn | In the linked chat, it was suggested that the comments were possibly deleted automatically as a result of receiving too many flags. The help centre offers the following vague wording: "In addition to bringing the comment to the attention of the moderators, a sufficient number of flags on a single comment will cause it to be deleted automatically. The number of flags required for deletion varies based on the number of votes on the comment, as well as the content of the comment itself." Can moderators confirm that this is what happened? | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 20:31 | comment | added | Sayan Chattopadhyay | @GerhardPaseman But it's fine for you to share a forum with fascists and apologists? Hypocrisy much? | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 20:03 | comment | added | Gerhard Paseman | Noah Snyder, your comments (here and on some other posts) seem to me antifascist enough that I am uncomfortable sharing a forum with you. I am willing to strike an uneasy peace with you by not commenting further in this thread if you will do the same (meaning your not commenting further in this thread also). I won't even assume lack of response as agreement with this; I'll just be grateful for the lack of response. | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 17:25 | comment | added | user158636 | @NoahSnyder isn't treason a good thing sometimes? Say a soldier who refuses to execute civilians in spite of a direct order is committing treason. Morally equating slavery with treason implies that good people should never question the state (or maybe you didn't equate them but then why mention Patriot's view on treason at all). | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 16:21 | comment | added | Noah Snyder | I also think it's telling that this discussion is certain to have more overt white supremacists involved in it than underrepresented minorities. | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 16:18 | comment | added | Noah Snyder | @LSpice: Generally I think that's true, but I make an exception for Confederates and Nazis who have no place in decent society. | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 16:17 | comment | added | LSpice | @NoahSnyder, as someone who disagrees with the premise of this question and downvoted it, does this belong in a meta question? Presumably the answer, if the comments were removed, is that they violate community norms or site guidelines; it doesn't matter who made them. I wouldn't like to see ad hominem attacks become involved in policy decisions. | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 16:12 | comment | added | Noah Snyder | Reminder to everyone that Patriot is an apologist for slavery and treason, and should not be treated as a good faith participant in this kind of discussion. | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 12:15 | comment | added | Patriot | Thanks, I was unaware of Harry's comments (and of the existence of the chat). | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 12:02 | comment | added | David White | I had nothing to do with the deletion of comments, and I'm glad yours is surviving here, because it shows the division within the community. However, the deletion of the comments by Harry Gindi does not represent silencing of dissent. He deleted his own comments, as he wrote that he was going to do here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/111634/… | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 12:01 | comment | added | David White | On main, I wrote...To clarify: "No other obvious place in the ICM program." According to the fourth bullet point in the question, this kind of lecture could fit as an ICM special lecture. I stand by my argument that such a talk could help propel the math community to a better place, and could help mathematicians understand the current status, current initiatives, and research on what works. I do not think a "rebuttal" would be necessary, as the talk would be based on the published literature, and not what people feel we should or should not be doing. ICM can help legitimize this kind of work. | |
| Aug 12, 2020 at 10:05 | history | edited | Martin Sleziak |
added tags indicating that the question is about a deleted comment
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| Aug 12, 2020 at 8:52 | history | asked | Patriot | CC BY-SA 4.0 |