12
$\begingroup$

I'm just asking. When an MSE account is temporarily suspended to cool down, then the expected outcome is that the user would start doing the same things on MO which led to the MSE suspension. This has the effect of MSE dumping problem users on MO. Is this in MO's best interest?

$\endgroup$
  • 8
    $\begingroup$ To me, it seems quite natural that said user would move to MO and do the same things. It would seem strange for the user to move to cooking.stackexchange.com or bicycles.stackexchange.com, but MO would be the first place on one's list, no? $\endgroup$ – Gerry Myerson Aug 21 '13 at 0:25
  • $\begingroup$ Yes, that was my point. I edited the question to make that more clear. It's what I expect a user to do, the question is whether this is desirable for MO. $\endgroup$ – Michael Zieve Aug 21 '13 at 0:28
  • 6
    $\begingroup$ Sorry, the question seems less clear to me than before the edit. Anyway, I'm with quid's answer --- offenses at site X don't automatically warrant suspensions at site Y. $\endgroup$ – Gerry Myerson Aug 21 '13 at 0:33
  • 6
    $\begingroup$ If the suspension is due to outrageous disruptive behavior, I am not sure it makes sense to wait for such behavior to happen here as well before doing anything. (You can replace "outrageous disruptive behavior" with whatever you prefer, I will not be elaborating on this for now.) $\endgroup$ – Andrés E. Caicedo Aug 21 '13 at 0:59
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ @AndresCaicedo First, leaves open the question who decides this 'if'. And, I see no reason for some special treatement of math.SE and MO. Perhaps, if somebody is suspended on cstheory they will move here too. So, do we decide this too. Maybe from scientific computing, maybe from the statistics site. Maybe if on SO, they will move to the numerous other programming related sites or vice-versa. Is such an agreement in place anywhere? (There is something like a network-wide ban, if the math.SE mods think this is reasonable they could suggest it. But also this is none of our business here.) $\endgroup$ – user9072 Aug 21 '13 at 1:28
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ @quid: I don't agree that MSE and MO should always be viewed the same way as any other pair of SE sites. They're both explicitly about the same topic. $\endgroup$ – Michael Zieve Aug 21 '13 at 1:34
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @MichaelZieve me neither. I did not name 'any othe pair' but gave quite specific examples. There are various cases on the SE-network where one site's on-topic is more or less a proper subset of the other site's, as is the case for MO and math.SE, such as cstheory and cs, ask different and super user, or many programming related sites that seems essentially SO spin-off then somewhat broadened. (Or, why does the subject even matter so much, what if an MO users gets suspended on tex.SE for "outrageous disruptive behavior" to use A.C. term, one might say it won't depend on the subject.) $\endgroup$ – user9072 Aug 21 '13 at 1:49
  • $\begingroup$ @MichaelZieve, I suggest splitting up into more sentences: "When an MSE account is temporarily suspended to cool down, then the expected outcome is that the user would start doing the same things on MO which led to the MSE suspension. It seems strange to sit by and wait for this to happen." $\endgroup$ – Will Jagy Aug 21 '13 at 1:53
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ @Will Jagy, thanks for the suggestion, I edited along those lines. $\endgroup$ – Michael Zieve Aug 21 '13 at 2:01
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ I guess the OP was inspired by this thread I opened. If you are interested, you can read my recent activities in MSE.meta and guess why I was suspended. I wrote the list of the relevant threads of MSE in the above thread at the request of an MO moderator. $\endgroup$ – Makoto Kato Aug 21 '13 at 6:07
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ Moderator Private Message Hello, I'm writing in reference to your MathOverflow account: mathoverflow.net/users/37646/makoto-kato We've noticed that you have a pattern of engaging in lengthy discussions in comments, frequently consisting of responses involving multiple, back-to-back posts. Extensive comment threads tend to be a distraction for other readers. In view of precedents on math.stackexchange.com, we are immediately suspending your account for a few days. Regards, Francois G. Dorais MathOverflow moderator $\endgroup$ – Makoto Kato Sep 23 '13 at 2:59
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ [We've noticed that you have a pattern of engaging in lengthy discussions in comments, frequently consisting of responses involving multiple, back-to-back posts.] I have no idea what he is talkng about. $\endgroup$ – Makoto Kato Sep 23 '13 at 3:03
30
$\begingroup$

No. The sites are different, also the standards and context are somewhat different. I do not see any reason for any automatic mechanism (or even only an informal one, except perhaps exchange of general information among the moderators) for moderating decision on the one having effect on the other.

If and when a user does something on this site warranting a suspension on this site, they can and should be suspended on this site. If not, then not.

$\endgroup$
  • 7
    $\begingroup$ Could we take the approach whereby the mods here are light on the trigger, given that the person already has a reputation for suspension-worthy behaviour? I mean in a case where a generic person gets a warning, the MSE-suspended person skips that step. $\endgroup$ – David Roberts Aug 21 '13 at 3:25
  • 7
    $\begingroup$ We're pretty much taking this approach, and talking to the M.SE mods to get some background. The wheels of moderation may move slowly, but we're not afraid of being pre-emptive when appropriate. $\endgroup$ – Scott Morrison Aug 21 '13 at 4:11
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ @DavidRoberts I have been rewatching Yes, Minister, which contains several fine examples of what hypothetical Principal Private Secretaries might tell hypothetical Permanent Secretaries about what hypothetical Department Ministers do not wish their Permanent Secretaries to know... $\endgroup$ – Yemon Choi Aug 21 '13 at 4:17
  • $\begingroup$ @Scott: Now you don't have to talk to the MSE moderators anymore. You can talk to one of the MO moderators instead. ;-) $\endgroup$ – Asaf Karagila Oct 17 '13 at 10:43
20
$\begingroup$

If a user is going from site to site and creating disruptions, we (the Stack Exchange) community team will get involved. We don't like to preemptively suspend users on similar sites because suspensions are designed specifically to get a certain kind of behavior that is disturbing to a certain community to stop.

An example on another topic would be programming. I'm user12345 and I'm constantly letting the user DarthHater get under my skin on Programming SE. I've been contacted about it a few times by the moderators but I can't sleep until I tell this clown hat how wrong he is.

There's no reason why I should be suspended from Stack Overflow, Code Review, Code Golf and Wordpress at the same time that I'm suspended at Programmers. I've caused no disruptions within those other communities, and the atmospheres are completely different. Plus, Darth never goes to those sites, he stays on Programmers.

If it gets to the point that a user just leaves misery in their wake, it's time for someone from the community team have a chat with them, and possibly take additional administrative action to ensure the disruptions stop. That's what we're paid for, and we're always around if you need us. Well, usually almost certainly sometimes often somewhat always!

$\endgroup$
14
$\begingroup$

Of course the moderators can take into account that a user has been a problem also in some other online community. I guess this has already happened a few times, think of "Oh, this guy is a crank, he's well known on sci.math".

On the other hand I don't think math.SE should play a special role here, that is, I don't think disruptive behavior on math.SE should be considered differently from disruptive behavior on (say) sci.math as far as our moderators are concerned. For one, I have not had complete faith in all of the moderators on math.SE, and I would not like them to automatically have the power to influence decisions on MO even indirectly.

$\endgroup$
13
$\begingroup$

I don't think it makes sense to have an automatic suspension policy, however I do think the moderators should let their decisions be informed by all their knowledg about a user, including their m.SE behavior. In particular, if someone has already been warned and suspended for certain behaviors at m.SE and then they try the same thing here, I'm in favor of the moderators skipping the warning phase and going straight to a suspension.

$\endgroup$
4
$\begingroup$

I would say that the suspension on one site should not imply the automatic suspension everywhere, though moderators should be able to do it in the extreme cases manually (anyone with a temper worse than that of St. Francis can get involved into some local flame war, etc. and some fora may be more encouraging in this respect than others), but the suspension on two fora would usually be a sufficient evidence of the "inherent trolling inclinations" and "premeditated disruptive behavior" to warrant the automatic global suspension.

$\endgroup$

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .