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Mathoverflow has seven moderators, but many of them seem to be inactive (at least from the point of view of an unprivileged user): for instance, they are not active on meta, and they moderated few questions recently (SEDE query thanks to Martin Sleziak; shows time-dependent results so it may change in future). It seems to me that Todd Trimble carried the burden of moderation single-handedly in these summer months, for instance.

Stack Exchange claims that "we periodically hold democratic moderator elections", but that seems blatantly false. We had only one moderator election, five years ago.

Should we have new elections?

I don't intend to run myself, but I have in mind one or two users that would make good moderators in my opinion.

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    $\begingroup$ There are not many ways how regular users can evaluate which moderators do most of work. (Mods have access to stats such as average flag-handling time or how many flags where handled by each moderator - which might be quite good way to see whether the current moderator team suffices for the site's needs.) I hope we'll here from moderators how they see the issue. $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 7:32
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    $\begingroup$ From the link in your post I see that you have used participation on meta as a measure of activity - which seems reasonable to me, it is related to moderating and it is publicly displayed, so it is something even regular users can check. I have listed a bit more detailed stats in MathOverflow chatroom. $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 7:33
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    $\begingroup$ BTW in the past there was a complaint about the wording - namely the word periodically. See here: Disinformation on moderator elections. (This was probably a follow-up on Mathematics Meta discussion: Have there been no moderator elections since December 2014?) $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 7:36
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    $\begingroup$ You seem to conflate activity on meta with being an active moderator. And whether or not some of the moderators are more and less active, is a good question, but it's not the same as pointing out to the activity on meta on "the public front". $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila Mod
    Aug 24, 2018 at 8:45
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    $\begingroup$ @MartinSleziak Thanks, I didn't know about that discussion. Anyway, no amount of grammar lawyering can stop me from thinking that using the word "periodically" for "it happened once in 8 years and there isn't a second one planned" is confusing and should be changed. $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 9:28
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    $\begingroup$ Setting all statistics aside, however interesting they might be, I'd expect new election in situations when either: 1) The current mods feel overwhelmed by the amount of work and need new additional moderators to help out. Or: 2) If the MO community is, for some reason, not satisfied with the work of moderator's team. $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 11:27
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    $\begingroup$ Independent of comparisons of recent activity of particular people -- in most cases, people elected for a public office serve a certain term of office, after which new elections are being held. -- Why should moderators on MathOverflow be an exception to this? $\endgroup$
    – Stefan Kohl Mod
    Aug 24, 2018 at 15:42
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    $\begingroup$ François and I were elected in 2010, but not using the special StackExchange election infrastructure. If you have over 10k points, you can see the (now deleted) June 2010 moderator election page here: mathoverflow.net/questions/28198/moderator-election-vote-here $\endgroup$
    – S. Carnahan Mod
    Aug 24, 2018 at 17:38
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    $\begingroup$ @StefanKohl "On all Stack Exchange sites, elected moderators serve until 1) they resign, or 2) Stack Exchange decides that they are not worthy of the position, or 3) their inactivity level reaches some critical point, or 4) a moderator action review process results in a decision to remove them"... This is from math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/26536/…... $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 18:00
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    $\begingroup$ One difference (I'm guessing) between this forum and the other Stackexchange forums is that there is an LLC staffed by many of the moderators for the continued support of this forum. Before an election is considered, the relationship between this corporation and the moderation team should be clarified. In particular, will a new moderator be expected to participate in the corporation duties? Gerhard "There Are Wheels Within Wheels" Paseman, 2018.08.24. $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 18:29
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    $\begingroup$ @S.Carnahan Neither reason for deleting it seems very compelling, I must say. I suggest to undelete it, move it to Meta where it belongs (so that the badges will become badges on Meta, which are even more worthless than those on the main site) and delete the answer mentioning Harry Gindi. $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 19:17
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    $\begingroup$ By the way, congratulations to Scott Morrison on becoming Australia's PM. Gerhard "Scott Must Be Very Busy" Paseman, 2018.08.24. $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 21:55
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    $\begingroup$ "...the sanctity of the badge count" !!! $\endgroup$ Aug 24, 2018 at 22:27
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    $\begingroup$ @GerryMyerson I suppose I could have chosen better words. I do not take badges particularly seriously, but Timothy Gowers's comment on one of the answers on the page in question suggests that there are people who do, and I see no reason to invalidate their views. $\endgroup$
    – S. Carnahan Mod
    Aug 25, 2018 at 4:51
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    $\begingroup$ @StefanKohl This discussion on Meta Stack Exchange is related to your question: Should Community Moderators be “elected for life”, or have terms? $\endgroup$ Aug 28, 2018 at 13:10

7 Answers 7

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This is what I wrote (with slight edits) at the MO chatroom:

I guess I should mention that I am often in contact with my fellow moderators, especially when a sticky situation arises that I'm not sure how to handle, I'll want to consult them or get consensus. That kind of behind-the-scenes activity is of course invisible to general users.

I think part of the "problem" is that I am on MO so much, and I process flags so readily (because I like having a clean inbox), to the point where other moderators often don't have much of ordinary moderation to do when they tune in. They can't be blamed for that. I could voluntarily scale back my activity, if that would be considered a healthy thing to do...

I would also like to mention that other moderators are involved with labor-intensive activities such as setting up MathOverflow, Inc. as a non-profit (that's a lot of paperwork and legal work), financial activities, and improvement of the citation function, to name a few. This may help offset any impression that other moderators aren't doing much.

Finally, let me mention that we moderators have a yearly meeting where one of the agenda items is to discuss whether we should have another moderator. Of course my input is sought since I am currently the most active moderator for day-to-day on-site actions. So far I have reported not feeling a personal need for more, but it's of course fine to discuss this at meta.

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    $\begingroup$ Todd, I wouldn’t want you to scale back the work that you enjoy and that many of us appreciate so much, but it’d be good to see if MO can remain robust in your absence. So sometime it might be healthy to take a vacation! $\endgroup$
    – user44143
    Aug 24, 2018 at 20:34
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    $\begingroup$ Thanks, Matt. In view of some reactions I've seen recently, I'm indeed considering explicitly announcing my handing over the rudder of day-to-day activities to my fine colleagues, at least for a while, while I find other ways of serving in a moderator capacity. There are plenty of things that need to be done. $\endgroup$
    – Todd Trimble Mod
    Aug 24, 2018 at 20:51
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    $\begingroup$ @ToddTrimble I hope this thread of mine is not one of the reasons why you are thinking this. I think you're doing a great job and I have no complaints against the current group of moderators; I was merely worried that we were stressing you out too much with this amount of work. $\endgroup$ Aug 25, 2018 at 6:09
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    $\begingroup$ Federico, please don't worry; if anything, this and what was said in the chatroom helped put my mind at ease. I should clarify that I'm not contemplating quitting as moderator, but maybe following Matt's suggestion for a month or two at main and seeing what happens -- meanwhile attending to sorely neglected matters brought up at meta. "Reactions I've seen recently" refers to a recent uptick in some of my actions being called into question (for reasons other than this thread, yesterday was particularly trying), and thus it might indeed be good backing off and giving other mods more of a crack. $\endgroup$
    – Todd Trimble Mod
    Aug 25, 2018 at 12:16
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As of last month or so, the majority of moderators is in favor of holding elections "soon", but the person we chose to get the ball rolling may be occupied with non-MO commitments right now. I (or someone else) will update when we know more.

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  • $\begingroup$ Will there be nominations again? $\endgroup$ Aug 21, 2020 at 5:21
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ @Harry: I think this time we're going to have a fair process. We roll a die to decide who becomes America Next Top Model. Err, MO Next MOderator. $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila Mod
    Aug 21, 2020 at 12:23
  • $\begingroup$ @AsafKaragila I nominate Asaf, Lucia, and the drummer from the Roots. $\endgroup$ Aug 21, 2020 at 12:25
  • $\begingroup$ Also Martin Sleziak. $\endgroup$ Aug 21, 2020 at 12:41
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Hiya! Can one of y'all contact me about this - I'm happy to do what I can to facilitate. You can ping me in chat or grab my email off my profile. :) $\endgroup$
    – Catija
    Sep 18, 2020 at 16:48
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    $\begingroup$ @Catija, thanks very much for the offer. A user flagged to say that your comment could look "spammy" to some users -- our community is very international and might not get the "Hiya!" and "y'all" or other American colloquialisms. (Please take this as a usage note and nothing more.) $\endgroup$
    – Todd Trimble Mod
    Sep 21, 2020 at 2:53
  • $\begingroup$ Are the mods making any efforts to ensure a diverse candidate slate? $\endgroup$
    – Ursula
    Sep 25, 2020 at 17:11
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    $\begingroup$ cough cough $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila Mod
    Nov 25, 2020 at 22:02
  • $\begingroup$ Almost six months since this answer. Any updates? $\endgroup$
    – Lucia
    Feb 7, 2021 at 19:05
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    $\begingroup$ @Lucia it's going ahead! $\endgroup$
    – David Roberts Mod
    Mar 23, 2021 at 1:07
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Nope, everything is fine, no need for new elections.

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  • $\begingroup$ I think Ben Webster says the same thing... :O What is new here? $\endgroup$ Aug 28, 2018 at 17:51
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    $\begingroup$ Andras is trying the experiment, rather than proposing it. Gerhard "That's What Is New Here" Paseman, 2018.08.28. $\endgroup$ Aug 28, 2018 at 17:53
  • $\begingroup$ Oh. I understand now... $\endgroup$ Aug 28, 2018 at 18:21
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    $\begingroup$ Yes, I am doing the experiment, but I also mean it: I am really satisfied with the way how this site is moderated and I am grateful to our moderators for this. How they do it is in the end their business. There are many of us here ready to help if needed. $\endgroup$ Aug 28, 2018 at 19:52
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    $\begingroup$ As a poll, isn't this biased towards those who spend time on meta, and hence under-representing those for whom "business as usual" is fine? (Declaration of interest: I have upvoted here and I agree with @AndrásBátkai ) $\endgroup$
    – Yemon Choi
    Aug 29, 2018 at 12:13
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I think this might be a good idea, even though the current moderators are doing a fine job overall. The last election was now seven years back, and it might be good to have fresh perspectives.

Part of my concern is with recent political discussions on MO that have gotten out of hand. I am surprised not to see more moderator engagement with these issues: either to smooth things over, or to explain their perspective. (Added: This concern has now been addressed, thanks to S. Carnahan. But it might still be good to consider enlarging the moderators to include more perspectives.)

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  • $\begingroup$ Seven years? Oh wow. It feels just yesterday. Well, maybe last week. Did we lose any moderators since then? I have a feeling that the answer is yes, but I'm not sure who. $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila Mod
    Aug 13, 2020 at 18:08
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    $\begingroup$ @AsafKaragila: I think Mariano Suarez-Alvarez who was elected along with Todd Trimble is no longer a moderator. From the original list, Anton Geraschenko also stepped down. I don't know if there are any other cases ... $\endgroup$
    – Lucia
    Aug 13, 2020 at 18:10
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    $\begingroup$ @AsafKaragila October 2018: Were there some recent changes to the moderators' team? The answer suggests that Mariano Suárez-Alvarez could get back his diamond if he wanted to. This post also lists the moderators and their changes over time: History of MathOverflow. (We'll see whether all moderators will stay after September 7.) $\endgroup$ Aug 13, 2020 at 18:26
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    $\begingroup$ I fear a moderator election during the peak a presidential campaign based on how moderators should respond to politically charged discussions will be... unpleasant? $\endgroup$ Aug 13, 2020 at 18:30
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    $\begingroup$ @NoahSnyder: That's another reason for considering new moderators: there is a world outside the US. The presidential campaign will obviously still be relevant to the outside world, but your comment reveals how much of our discussions is dominated by an American viewpoint. $\endgroup$
    – Lucia
    Aug 13, 2020 at 18:34
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    $\begingroup$ @Lucia: I'm not sure I understand, if you don't want the moderator election to be dominated by American politics, then isn't now exactly the wrong time to have it? $\endgroup$ Aug 13, 2020 at 19:03
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    $\begingroup$ @NoahSnyder: I think it would be good to have people from perspectives outside the US be moderators. For many people, the presidential campaign is not likely to be the soul-sucking emotional nightmare that it is for us Americans. So worrying about the presidential campaign is also just one very particular perspective. I'm aware that three of the moderators are currently not in the US; but still these three were at grad school with you in Berkeley! For example, it would be nice to have someone from Europe who is active on MO be a moderator. $\endgroup$
    – Lucia
    Aug 13, 2020 at 19:06
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    $\begingroup$ @Lucia: I certainly agree that having a moderator residing in Europe would be good for a lot of reasons (time zone, perspective, different networks), and that Mariano leaving was a loss. $\endgroup$ Aug 13, 2020 at 19:15
  • $\begingroup$ Did anyone contact the moderators to hear what they have to say on the topic? $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila Mod
    Aug 17, 2020 at 18:14
  • $\begingroup$ @AsafKaragila: I don't know -- I didn't. Presumably they are on Meta and have seen this. I guess some of the reservations expressed in earlier answers will still apply. But I also think there are plenty of people who could be trusted to do a thoughtful job (as a moderator). $\endgroup$
    – Lucia
    Aug 17, 2020 at 18:20
  • $\begingroup$ Thoughtful job as a moderator, or thoughtful job sending an email? I didn't want to send an email if one was already sent. (It's not that I disrespect your time to reply to my comments, don't get me wrong...) $\endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila Mod
    Aug 17, 2020 at 18:21
  • $\begingroup$ I think nothing would make me happier than to have Lucia as a moderator, tbh. $\endgroup$ Aug 21, 2020 at 5:20
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    $\begingroup$ The moderators are in agreement to have a moderator election. $\endgroup$
    – Todd Trimble Mod
    Sep 21, 2020 at 2:58
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    $\begingroup$ @ToddTrimble: Now seems a good time to ask if you have an idea of when that would be. $\endgroup$
    – Lucia
    Nov 7, 2020 at 23:41
  • $\begingroup$ @Lucia No, not exactly. Discussions about the next moderator election are still ongoing. $\endgroup$
    – Todd Trimble Mod
    Nov 8, 2020 at 1:45
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I thought the community deserved a little update on the internal moderator discussions on this point. My answer below just speaks for me, but I did run it by the other moderators, and got no objections. It's my attempt to lay out our thinking, so that people have a chance to disagree.

Our basic calculation is that moderator elections have the potential to create problems and there don't seem to be any issues they are likely to solve, so until we see a change in that balance, it doesn't make sense to elect new ones. None of us are strongly opposed to moderator elections, now or on general principle, but at the moment, we've agreed that the (small) risks outweigh the (small) benefits.

Let me talk about both sides of that equation: I don't think I need to point out to anyone who reads the news that elections can have unpredictable consequences. I think it's pretty unlikely that the MO community would elect someone who created any serious issues or who had big clashes with current moderators, but life is unpredictable. I think this is a little trickier with MathOverflow than it would be with another StackExchange site because of our unusual history and identity within the StackExchange network. As Gerhard mentioned, there is a separate non-profit run by the moderators which exists mainly to hold onto our option to go independent of the larger StackExchange world if the need ever arose; it also exists to accept funds which could potentially be used against future costs (ironically, the main thing we have actually used money for is to set up the LLC; this was done with a grant from the Sloan Foundation). Again, I don't think that the MO community would elect someone who didn't appreciate the site's mission and what makes it different, but a moderator election would raise some sticky questions (would we commit to adding the new moderator to the board before the election?) that seem like unnecessary complications.

The opposite side of this is the potential benefits. I think that this question started with the observation that several of the moderators are not especially active. This is undoubtedly true, but largely stems from the fact that Todd tends to get to moderation flags before any of the rest of us have a chance to see them. The number of questions requiring by hand moderator intervention is quite small (and most them don't actually require it); if you look in data explorer, you'll see Todd took almost all the by-hand actions in the last year, but that the total number (not counting Community) is around 50, so one a week. Actually, becoming a moderator can interfere with participating in day-to-day moderation, since voting for closure or deletion as a "civilian" is impossible and your vote on its own will close or delete a question. I think arguably the last few years proves that Todd could handle the day-to-day moderation on his own if he needed to (not that we would ask him to).

So, the much more important thing moderators do is deal with occasional weird and difficult cases (we occasionally have banned users who very stubbornly try to post under different accounts, vote fraud, etc.) and act as long term stewards of the site. We do also have the bully pulpit to weigh in on issues facing the site, though that's only really our moral suasion (and electing a new moderator wouldn't do much to give them more authority on this point). If that or some other aspect of the moderator job needs new blood, I think the current moderation team is quite open to having elections, but I haven't seen a strong argument for it.

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    $\begingroup$ I have some concerns regarding a) some missing remarks of mine that I did not delete, and b) some unanswered emails to the moderators concerning policy/promotion. Although there are also some broader concerns, these other concerns have been present for almost as long as I have participated. Since the forum is still here, I prefer to work with the existing team on these and other concerns rather than change the team. Thanks for the update and the chance to disagree. Gerhard "Thanks For Having Me Mostly" Paseman, 2018.09.11. $\endgroup$ Sep 11, 2018 at 15:42
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    $\begingroup$ Just a minor objection to one thing Ben said: it should be added that I have always relied on the other moderators to help me carry out day-to-day operations: particularly when I have a tricky flag or circumstance to respond to, I'll ask others for input/advice. In recent days, in accordance with comments below my answer (starting with Matt F''s), I have scaled back some day-to-day activities, mostly processing only very routine flags, and leaving harder cases to my other moderators for now. So the moderators really are in this together, and we as a team come to consensus pretty readily. $\endgroup$
    – Todd Trimble Mod
    Sep 12, 2018 at 15:09
  • $\begingroup$ @ToddTrimble From the outsider view I'd guess that the most frequent thing a moderator has to do is handling flags (mod flags can only be handled by a moderator, IIRC if a post lingers for too long in some of the review queues, the flag is also moved to moderators) - which makes the claim about "50 by-hand actions in the last year" a bit misleading (probably unintentionally), since this number is about a very specific subset of mod actions. (The details are listed in the linked query.) Out of curiosity, how many flags do moderators handle per year? Hundreds? More? $\endgroup$ Dec 30, 2018 at 19:27
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    $\begingroup$ @MartinSleziak As a very rough estimate, something on the order of 1500 per year, give or take. Many of those are routine. $\endgroup$
    – Todd Trimble Mod
    Dec 30, 2018 at 23:21
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    $\begingroup$ Since I have asked about the number of handled flags, I will also mention that now there is a post on meta with more detailed stats than the ones given in @ToddTrimble's comment. The posts gives statistics for the calendar year 2018: "Question flags handled: 856, Answer flags handled: 830, Comment flags handled: 1,385." $\endgroup$ Jan 10, 2019 at 16:32
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I don’t have a strong opinion in the matter, but I’m curious how many upvotes an answer that said “Nope, everything is fine, no need for new elections” would get.

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    $\begingroup$ I think it depends on whether the answer comes from a diamond or not. However, holding a poll might work: one answer to vote up for elections, one answer for not elections, and one for undecided/don't care. Gerhard "Hears Apathy Is Rather Popular" Paseman, 2018.08.26. $\endgroup$ Aug 27, 2018 at 5:21
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Moderators should be changed at regular intervals, neither too frequent nor too infrequent, for the same reasons that department chairs, editors, members of parliament, deans, etc. should be changed at regular intervals.

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    $\begingroup$ I'm not sure the analogy really holds. Moderators here are more akin to high ranking civil servants than members of parliament. $\endgroup$ Oct 5, 2018 at 22:56
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    $\begingroup$ No analogy was made, rather it was claimed (implicitly) that for reasons not specific to context (i.e. independent of the putative analogy) changes should be made to management (whatever the context). In any case, surely high ranking civil servants should be rotated too. It's rarely healthy to have the same under secretary of scientific research forever. Changes in management, at more or less regular intervals, are standard in most institutions, big and small, that have functioned well for a long time. (In no way am I criticizing current moderation, which seems to me fine.) $\endgroup$
    – Dan Fox
    Oct 6, 2018 at 8:17

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