Timeline for How can we attract more grad students?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
30 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Feb 11, 2021 at 0:06 | comment | added | David Roberts Mod | "Encouraging your students and friends to participate is good for them as well, ... in ... overcoming anxiety." [Narrator: not medical advice, see your doctor if symptoms persist] | |
| Feb 1, 2021 at 8:52 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | This isn't purely self-interested for MO. Encouraging your students and friends to participate is good for them as well, not just in helping research but also in developing social skills in a professional environment and overcoming anxiety. Participation is good for mental health. That's why I mentioned in my comment to AT0 that my advice was also life advice. | |
| Feb 1, 2021 at 7:13 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | I think Ravi misunderstood or wasn't familiar with the idiom: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kick_in_the_pants . A kick in the pants is encouragement not discouragement. It's synonymous with "light a fire under (someone)". | |
| Feb 1, 2021 at 5:10 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | @RaviVakil No no, on MO itself we should be all sweetness and etc. I meant off of MO in the real world, we should be out motivating people to use MO (with kicks to the tush, not kisses!). Another metaphor I like is pushing someone into the shallow end of a pool. There is no serious danger but maybe fleeting discomfort. But anyway, this should be done by advisors to their students or grad students to their colleagues, and not on MO. | |
| Feb 1, 2021 at 0:08 | comment | added | Ravi Vakil | @dhy wrote: " I think different prominent mathematicians intimidate different proportions of grad students. And I would think that for at least some prominent mathematicians, "How can I try to intimidate fewer grad students?" might be a worthwhile question to spend some time thinking about." That's a perfect example of how to give advice in a kind way. I hope you post more! | |
| Feb 1, 2021 at 0:02 | comment | added | Ravi Vakil | @FrancescoPolizzi as usual I agree with you. Saying "Here you are wrong" in a kind way also shows how to show someone is wrong in a kind way --- an added bonus! | |
| Jan 31, 2021 at 23:55 | comment | added | Francesco Polizzi | @RaviVakil: I was not comparing "being welcoming" to "being over-protective". I was just trying to say that, sometimes, saying (kindly) to someone "Here you are wrong" might be better for her/him than just stay silent out of fear of being too direct. | |
| Jan 31, 2021 at 23:04 | comment | added | Ravi Vakil | I strongly and viscerally disagree that grad students need a kick in the pants. I also assert that this point of view is held by almost no one in the community. Separately, I know FP meant well (and I like his comments in general), but I don't think of being welcoming as being overprotective. I would go so far as to say (to dhy and anyone else) that if you find somewhere on MO someone giving someone else a kick in the pants, please let the community know. The community does not take kindly to discouraging people just wanting to learn. | |
| Jan 31, 2021 at 17:57 | comment | added | Yemon Choi | @HarryGindi I don't agree, and indeed the attitude you are taking with your recent comments and "horsing around" is precisely why I directed that La Bruyere quote at you. Re "I don't know how you are going to fix problems that seem to be grounded in the fact that these grad students have a certain kind of personality" - well, physician heal thyself. I think that's all I have to say on this matter and will not clog up this comment thread further. | |
| Jan 30, 2021 at 9:24 | comment | added | Francesco Polizzi | Well, it is not exactly the same thing, but parental experience shows that it is usually a delicate task to find the balance between over-protecting kids and being too harsh with them. | |
| Jan 30, 2021 at 7:17 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | (by executing an admiral from time to time =) ) | |
| Jan 30, 2021 at 4:23 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | Anyway the point of my post was that maybe the solution is giving grad students a kick in the pants for motivation. | |
| Jan 30, 2021 at 3:52 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | @YemonChoi Pour moi? C'est tout dureté!!! Tout le monde devrait être plus dur! I don't speak fronch though I was just horsing around. | |
| Jan 29, 2021 at 23:54 | comment | added | Yemon Choi | @HarryGindi "L'expérience confirme que la mollesse ou l'indulgence pour soi et la dureté pour les autres n'est qu'un seul et même vice." | |
| Jan 29, 2021 at 20:17 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | @dhy I don't know how you are going to fix problems that seem to be grounded in the fact that these grad students have a certain kind of personality, mais dans ce site-ci, il est peut être bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 18:41 | comment | added | Yemon Choi | Just to say +1 to @dhy's comment immediately above - and not just for "prominent" mathematicians. I do sometimes think one can lapse into a mentality of "clearly I'm not super-eminent, so how could I be punching down, I would expect to receive the same treatment" - I know I have done so from time to time. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 17:47 | comment | added | dhy | @HarryGindi I don't disagree with that. But I would classify that as a problem as well. Maybe your opinion is that these are not fixable problems. I don't know if they are --- if I did, I wouldn't have asked this question. But following your analogy (which I think is a good one), I think different prominent mathematicians intimidate different proportions of grad students. And I would think that for at least some prominent mathematicians, "How can I try to intimidate fewer grad students?" might be a worthwhile question to spend some time thinking about. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 17:37 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | @dhy A supermajority of grad students is too intimidated to talk to prominent mathematicians at conferences. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 17:31 | comment | added | dhy | Maybe this is not the case for most grad students you know. I don't know, it is theoretically possible that I'm in a strange geographic bubble which happens to uniformly dislike the idea of participating on MO. But if it is the case that a supermajority of grad students is turned off by MO, then that seems like a clear problem to me, and "MO can't be all things to all people" seems like a terrible counterargument. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 17:27 | comment | added | dhy | @HarryGindi "And obviously if this place works for some people, it's good. MO can't be all things to all people (and any attempt to do so will make it good for nobody)." I don't think anybody is proposing making MO be all things to all people. And I find the statement "if this place works for some people, it's good" rather absurd. I would say the target audience of MO clearly includes ("advanced") grad students. And my experience is that the clear majority of grad students do not want to ask questions on MO. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 16:44 | comment | added | AT0 | I was only paraphrasing your edited/deleted answer, it is ( I thought clearly ) not my opinion that we/MO shouldnt do anything to help ease people's issues coming here that you identify as 'personal insecurities'. In any case I dont think I have anything else to add, I think we're on very different pages and I already have made my points and what I advocate for very clear. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 16:28 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | My opinion is that we shouldn't try to change anything fundamental about the website, but if there are small changes in process or procedure done on a voluntary basis, or better information for new users, those are fine. The solution to the reputation problem however is just to propagandize/advertise how good MO is. I do also agree with the idea that we shouldn't make policies based around people's personal insecurities. We're not therapists or priests (unless someone wants to start a religion; hit me up!!), just mathematicians. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 15:58 | comment | added | AT0 | I meant that "MO is good" doesnt follow from "Reddit is worse, or different". As I said, I dont understand at all the comparison with other communities. MO is pretty unique in its target audience and its userbase. If you dont think there's anything to change about MO then thats valid, maybe its just the grad students that need to work in their personal insecurities. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 15:49 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | Also, I think it's revealing of your opinions that you say "it doesn't make this place good". Tell me a place you think is good, or at least better, then. | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 15:39 | comment | added | Harry Gindi | @AT0 I dunno. I don't even know 22's account's name. I think he was just contrasting MO with a site that has a lower bar for entry. And obviously if this place works for some people, it's good. MO can't be all things to all people (and any attempt to do so will make it good for nobody). | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 15:29 | comment | added | AT0 | You said this was meant to be on the comments, I assume you mean under my answer and not the question. I dont understand how reddit ( or any other community ) is terribly relevant in this discussion. Maybe reddit is worse, different, or both, it doesnt make this place good nor it addresses the question. Reddit already doesnt attract as many grad students or senior researchers as MO, so its a poor benchmark. Or was there any reason to mention reddit specifically? | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 14:50 | history | undeleted | Harry Gindi | ||
| Jan 28, 2021 at 14:50 | history | edited | Harry Gindi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 28, 2021 at 10:25 | history | deleted | Harry Gindi | via Vote | |
| Jan 28, 2021 at 9:47 | history | answered | Harry Gindi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |